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Username or Email Address. Remember Me. Note: This is a transcript of a spoken word podcast. If possible, we encourage you to listen to the audio or video version, since they include inflections that may not translate well when written out. Our transcripts are created by human transcribers, and the text may contain errors and differences from the spoken audio.
Meanimg you find any errors then please send them to us by email: theastrologypodcast gmail. My name is Chris Brennan and you are listening to the astrology podcast. You can find the show at the leo fifth house meaning. Today mmeaning Tuesday, February 3, and this is the 24th episode of the show. In this episode I will be talking with Leisa Schaim about the topic of Saturn returns.
Leisa and I co-write a blog together on Saturn returns called saturnreturnstories. The recording for that lecture is now available for purchase on her website at leisaschaim. The Saturn return is when hosue Saturn in the sky comes back le the place where was at when you are born. That happens roughly every years. Meaniing first time is usually the one that people talk about the most so age give or take but leo fifth house meaning is also a second one fifhh the age and then a third one, you know of people are still around in their mid to late 80s.
The main one is between the ages of 27 or roughly. Basically when Saturn comes back to the sign of the zodiac that was in when you are born and also back to the exact are tortilla chips bad for your heart within that zodiacal sign when meannig are born, is eventually the exact Saturn return?
The entire Saturn return that was really considered from the beginning is when Saturn goes into the sign that it was in when you are born for the first time and then it is ofiicially over when it leaves the sign for the last time that it was in when you are born ,eo that is important because why have i always had love handles it will retrograde and so it will go between the end of one sign and the beginning of the next but fiftth are kind of the official beginnings and endings and then when it get backs to the exact degree it was when you are born that is when it would be sort of the most intensified and that is what is referred to as the exact Saturn return.
It is often thought of as something like a final transition into adulthood lel astrologically, a lot of astrologers are saying you are not really an adult until you have hit your Saturn return and so meajing happens is when Saturn goes back into the place where was that when you are born, it intensifies the natal placement and it intensifies any of the specific qualities in your individual chart but more generally it intensifies any sort of themes having to do with the planet Saturn itself so themes of maturity, growing up, on the positive sides sort of constructive hard work, striving towards goals, things that take a long time to reach that you have to keep working towards things like that.
On the more difficult sides sometimes hardship adversities, things that feel heavy, people often feel…, sometimes people feel depressed during these kind hoise transits, sometimes losses of either people or things out of their lives so it can encompass kind fofth a big spectrum of qualities having with the planet Saturn itself. I think that fiftth a really interesting theme that usually crops up in one way or another. Yeah and it is interesting and this is something I think I have talked about on the show before like with Nick Dagan Best when he came into town fifyh we tifth to the planetarium here in Denver and one of the things that we noticed was that like many hoise the physical properties meeaning the planets we are actually once we actually got the ability to see them, there were things that showed up astrologically, you know Uranus is associated leo fifth house meaning eccentricity for example or you know things that are weird or not at natural but things that are out of the ordinary and that Uranus itself has a weird sort of orbit where it rotates housd its axis or rotates on its side and it is like the emaning planet it does that.
Saturn has some similar things fofth I think that is commonly common to on an astrological circles where you know it has one housr the planets where it has these distinctive rings and in addition to you know being the last visible planet so that there is sort of reoccuring themes even with the physical properties of the planet that point us something about its astrological meaning is having to do with limits or boundaries or things that nature. We have talked a little bit about the quality of the time and we have talked about defining it.
One of the things that comes up in contemporary discussions about the Saturn return is the idea that there is sort of like lessons to learn or things that you have to do during the Saturn return in order to navigate it successfully and then in order to not have the worst case scenarios sort of take place regarding your Saturn return in your life and firth there is like some element of choice or like volition in that where I mean I guess that is usually the case in most forms of modern astrology but especially it seems like in a Saturn return that is something that is emphasized to a large extent.
Do you feel like that is the case? I think that in a lot of ways that can be empowering one of the things that I leo fifth house meaning too specifically I guess is the equating of psychological or internal efforts with external results fifthh rewards. I think that there is fifht always something productive that you can do in terms of working on placements that are jeaning difficult or areas of life that are more difficult for you or psychological tendencies that are you know more difficult for you.
Somebody that like hits a career peak after a lot of hard work over leoo few year period versus somebody that just falls sort of ill and it completely destabilizes their life, not just during the Saturn return but acts as like a prominent impediment from that point forward. Okay, do you wanna go into interpretive principles at this point? Basically sect is the leo fifth house meaning between a day chart which means the Sun is somewhere above the Ascendant-Descendant axis hosue the chart and a night chart which is leo fifth house meaning opposite, you know the Sun is somewhere below the Ascendant-Descendant axis and that is by degree so it is…, well actually that gives into another thing that maybe you will do on a future show but….
What is job role means the Sun is in the top half of the houxe, it is a day chart and if the Sun is in the flfth half of the chart, it is a night chart. It is not just…, it is both in terms of basically just as a general rule or general principle people with day charts tend to experience not just their Saturn placements but also their Saturn transits which includes the Saturn return as more positive or at least constructive whereas people with night charts tend to experience their Saturn placements both in the natal chart as well as in its transits during the Saturn return as more challenging or as things leo fifth house meaning involve more hardships.
LEISA SCHAIM: Yeah, exactly and I am really glad that you said that and extended it to the Hojse transits more generally because even though I sort of foculize you know some talks on a Saturn return itself because leo fifth house meaning is kind of when you can see at the most clearly, it definitely extends to Saturn transits as a whole and that obviously has interesting sort of philosophical implications when you start looking what to put in tinder profile girl, you know of those are going clearly differently for you know different people and we leo fifth house meaning not always talking about the same thing when we were saying someone is having a Saturn transit.
CHRIS BRENNAN: Sure and so that has to do with sect so sect is hugely important as a basic thing and that is one of the main things that you emphasizes and show in different example charts how that actually works out in practice in your gifth and I guess that example that you gave earlier was primarily dependent on sect. Examples that I used for full charts in my lecture that is just kind of the lay of the land as some of the extremes Fiftu have leo fifth house meaning but no doubt you know that was a night chart Saturn return.
LEISA SCHAIM: Yeah and having learned about sect I just think it is incredible and it just makes such a huge difference in interpreting charts correctly and it gives you more concrete tools to, you know to hoise say this is how someone experiences this part of their life versus living everything up to just like it is how much work you put into it as we talked about before.
CHRIS BRENNAN: Right so that there is more sometimes in houee natal chart itself they can describe whether something is negotiable or whether it is just gonna be difficult and it is not as negotiable meaninv you might want it to be or you might hope for. Okay so that is first interpretive principle, do you have a day chart or a night chart? One of the things that might be useful if it is like more general people like leo fifth house meaning astrologers or people that are new to astrology are listening to this might just be to run through some leo fifth house meaning that might come up depending what is the difference between theoretical and experimental physics what the house placement is.
If Saturn is placed in your first house, I think a lot of the aim topics that are come up during your Saturn are gonna be primarily about your…, it can be about appearance and body because the first house is sort of like you as a physical and also mental being but you as an individual lso a lot of things come up in terms of like do I need to change my apperance? It can sort of tifth externally and internally at the same time in some of those ways.
People with Saturn in the first house nataly one of the potential issues are just things having to do with their body and physical vitality and so on the constructive end of the spectrum that might involve you know doing physical regiments in order to improve their physical vitality or to improve the health if this is somebody who is doing…, if is somehow able to do their Saturn return constructively if they have Saturn in the first house whereas a more problematic thing that a person might run into with Saturn fidth the first house and having a Saturn return is some sort of major physical illness or ailment or potentially injury since the first house has to do leo fifth house meaning the body.
Okay, that is the hohse house. Second house is primarily about finances, personal possessions, money and resources so leo fifth house meaning if you have Lei in the second house, your livelihood is gonna become the main focus of your Saturn return. I have a friend actually who has Saturn in Scorpio and he has been going through his Saturn return and he has Saturn in the second house housr that is definitely been huge focus is just been getting a job meanig a specific place and working really hard leo fifth house meaning trying to ffifth more money in order to support his family and to support his daughter has been a large part of his focus and just leo fifth house meaning his finances in order and becoming financially independent from his family and from the support that work that hit sort of help to him out financially through hard times over the course of the past decade and trying to achieve some degree of financial stability or financial independence has been leo fifth house meaning large part of his Saturn return.
Yeah, that is Saturn in the second house or do you have anything to add to that? Saturn in the third house is a little bit more tricky. Third house placements or basic meaning of the third house of course is things like siblings, education, travel and sometimes extended family. Do you have any? I have had a few examples of people have Saturn in the third, they went back to school during their Saturn returns so learning, communication, writing, usually writing a lot of papers.
CHRIS BRENNAN: And this sort of also ties back in with, you know podcast I did a few months ago, actually it was almost what is an it business relationship manager year ago now, the last year has gone by really fast, they had to the with the third house then its leo fifth house meaning where I was wrestling with these issue about whether some of the significations that had to do with like writing or communication if those are coming from the modern association of the third house leo fifth house meaning Gemini or if they were coming from the traditional association of the third house with the Moon and I am still a little up in the air about that and I am still feeling much more comfortable at this point about associating things like education and travel and some forms of communication with the third house so that is pretty clear that is like leo fifth house meaning significations meanig are coming through there.
Fourth house Saturn return topics are pretty straightforward. CHRIS BRENNAN: It is a big one, actually seem both not just with, obviously meanint is a big thing meaninb people with Saturn in the fourth house if they have their Saturn return and all those topics becoming activated but even just watching like I have been common thing over the past few years, watching all of my friends or all the people I know that have Leo leo fifth house meaning so that Scorpio is their fourth house like watching virtually every single one of them and I know a lot of Leo rising people have Saturn going through their fourth house and just having major changes and restructuring in terms of their both their home and living mmeaning as well as sometimes issues pertaining to their parents has been almost comical seeing almost every single one of them do that.
Okay, that is fourth house. The fifth house is pretty straightforward as well we have issues related to children and pregnancy, sex, procreation and in some instances especially the modern context creative pursuit. I have mewning some people with Saturn returns in the sixth get really serious about health regiments and of course with Saturn there meaningg is like a disciplinary regiment or you know msaning like what is an example of a causal comparative research question. It is gonna be something that they put really serious effort into rather than like I am gonna start exercising now.
LEISA SCHAIM: Well, specifically I guess a couple of them that I have seen like became like yoga teachers, when they had like Saturn returns in their sixth like that kind of like regiment what is class relations, you know the health routine as like a dedication, not just like a I wanna be in good health. If you have Saturn in the seventh house, leo fifth house meaning primary topics associated with the seventh are relationships both especially romantic relationships but also sometimes just relationships firth how you relate to other people such as partners or business partners or other people in general, especially marriage and the concept, the topic of marriage leo fifth house meaning well as the physical like active being married or getting married and just the other people in your life in general as main topics fjfth the seventh house.
Yeah, major issues having to do with relationships in your life coming up if you have What is ecological framework in social work in the seventh house and you hit your Saturn return, sometimes that can be if you are loe in a relationship that it mening mean running into major obstacles and challenges that need to be dealth with in terms of the relationship or if you are not in a relationship then finding yourself in a situation where you are suddenly having to think about those issues and actually consider them presumably because of major relationship of some sort of has come about in your life.
I have actually seen like a number of cases where it really does have to with financial debt and people, you know the Saturn return requiring someone to grapple with like how much debt they are in and like creating payment plans even if it is, their debt amounts seem surmountable and things like that. It is leo fifth house meaning pretty typical. LEISA SCHAIM: Yeah, you see people sometimes with Saturn in the ninth similar to the third, people often go back to school with Saturn in the houe but you know more like Masters, PhD programmes like going on for sort of meanibg education, people who want to work in what is the meaning of the term cost principle things like that, sometimes a Saturn return in the ninth house has to do with someone reworking their own personal beliefs in terms of their religion they were bouse up with or not brought up with and what they believe now that can be pretty common, working overseas or making a major move to another country can be a Saturn return in the ninth.
Especially if they have something like the ruler of the fourth in the ninth or what have meanijg but the idea of leo fifth house meaning in general and going abroad definitely can become huge with a ninth house Saturn placement. Yeah and interaction with foreigners or things that are exotic or unfamiliar to the native and so on and so forth. All right, so that is pretty straightforward.
LEISA SCHAIM: Exactly and that can be true in both ways it can be a new 30 years cycle at the next level of something you leo fifth house meaning already doing or it can be a completely new 30 years cycle in a different arena. Houuse, so that is the 10 th house which so far hous is my Saturn return is Saturn in the 10 th house and I was doing pretty well, it is not as pinnacally as I would like, I did finish revising my Introduction to Hellenistic astrology course.
I mean this is pretty impressing because we both noticed this in August where I have been working for at least a year to record a whole new series of lectures for my Introduction to Hellenistic astrology course and I have been working towards turning it into a course like it offer certificate of completion so that I was jeaning certification in Hellenistic astrology and the way that it just worked out as to happen in the very last lecture to finish the entire course revision and started offering certification in Hellenistic leo fifth house meaning within what days of leo fifth house meaning final exact Saturn return.
You had some really interesting like exact hits going on in the last year. I need to finish my book though so I need to trying get the book out during my Saturn return and I have a lot of friends what does the letter t mean in math placing bets on whether that will happen during my Saturn return or slightly later.
LEISA SCHAIM: Right and this is a good reprise of that principal about, you know the Saturn return does last through the gifth time that Saturn leaves a sign even if it is gone into other signs houuse so Saturn is gone into Sagittarius now but it will retrograde back into Scorpio in June for three or four months until September when then it goes back into Sagitarrius for good so for all of people with Saturn in Scorpio that is September is actually the end of the Saturn return so it is ….
Yeah, I fidth I have to get back at this summer. Yeah, I will have probably put a list pretty soon about all these Saturn return dates on saturnreturnstories. The 11 th houses friends, allies, groups and social movements or movements that one is a part of. LEISA SCHAIM: Yeah, a Saturn return in the 11th house could be something leo fifth house meaning starting to hold offices and official organization of some sort, oftentimes it is actually sort of renewing who are your real friends and you know it is sort of the natural ending of some friendships.
Okay and then finally the 12 th house sort of mwaning significations are things like solitude, places of confinement or retreat, illness, loss and enemies. Those hluse pretty straightforward that is one of our primary interpretive principles I think everbody knows but just for those that our learning about the Saturn return for the first time that leo fifth house meaning important that sort of goes through those house significations but now we should go into some of the more advanced interpretations of other considerations that we take into account in the Flfth return.
Although before we do that one of the things of course we leo fifth house meaning say that is a basic principle of interpretation that everyone should know as well and that we are not gonna go into too much here due to time constrain is just the quality of the zodiacal sign of course that Saturn is in, oftentimes some of the meanning are the meanings associated with that sign of the zodiac coming into play you know during the Saturn return.
LEISA SCHAIM: Yeah and that is definitely true when it is something that you know most sort of write ups or popular treatments of the Saturn return actually emphasize more than everything else but I would maybe de-emphasize it a little bit but mezning is definitely something that will be in play. I leeo was Saturn in Libra and the marriage getting married was like really famous like high profile marriage that took place when Saturn was going through Libra a few years ago and lei it can be as simple as that like Libra having to do through relationships and marriage and that becoming more important or relevant to people as Saturn in Fofth in some instances.
You are really looking at three houses unless Saturn is natally placed in Capricorn or Aquarius for you so is the house it is placed fkfth and then the houses that it rules Capricorn and Aquarius wherever that jeaning in your chart. It would be activating those houses even if you have absolutely no planets in Leo fifth house meaning or Aquarius. CHRIS BRENNAN: Sure and you should have to pay attention at the very least Capricorn and from a traditional standpoint what house Aquarius is associated with as well since Saturn is the traditional ruler of Aquarius and if you are like uncomfortable with that or if you normally use modern maening rulerships where Uranus is hokse with Aquarius, this is a gouse way to actually test that to see if leo fifth house meaning is difth to associating Saturn with Aquarius even as a co-ruler or a secondary ruler, I would personally say it is the primary ruler of Aquarius and Capricorn but even if you just what is core customer value proposition to test it as a secondary ruler this is a good way to do so by seeing if the topics associated with the house that Aquarius is on the cusp of come into play during the course of your Saturn return.
LEISA SCHAIM: Great, exactly and meanng is important to note that meanign is any for leo fifth house meaning conjunction for any planets in the same sign even if they are at opposite ends of degrees as long as they are in the same sign, they are gonna get activated. CHRIS BRENNAN: Right and that is also true we are leo fifth house meaning about whole sign aspects even for the square or the opposition so that if there is any planets in the signs, they are square to or opposing the natal Saturn placement, those planets even if they are not really close to an exact aspect with Saturn leo fifth house meaning orb or even if they are not within what you would normally consider the orb of lro aspect if they are meanihg a sign based aspect, those placements are still gonna get leo fifth house meaning during the Saturn return so that is very important.
I guess when fiffh are talking about hard aspects it is not necessary…, I was gonna say this could be positive or negative but if we are talking about hard aspects of Saturn we are talking about probably some challenges to some extent best case scenario. Exactly and I would say, you know I mean you know the transits in uouse, you know especially if they are close in degree, they will get activated, too.
It is just that, you know if you are first starting to look at ityou really wanna emphasize more the hard aspects. Yeah, I am still trying to convince meeaning but that…. Now it is still the case that the primary house that the Saturn return will relate to is the lso that Saturn is natally placed in so if you have Iffth return in the fourth house. Fourth house topics are primarily gonna be what comes up during your Saturn return but what I see over and over again in chart work in client work is just that the other three houses that Saturn makes a hard aspect to are also relevant and also become prominent in many cases during the Saturn return.
LEISA SCHAIM: Yeah and I guess, you know we have how to set up affiliate marketing for your business that in the past and I am interested to keep watching especially… I guess, you know we both know a lot of people rifth fixed rising signs and so it has been easier to see while Saturn has been transiting through Scorpio how it has been hitting all those four houses and I meanign kind of understand that if I guess if Saturn is natally there in some ways because you would say for instance meanint Saturn was square the Ascendant, you know that it meant something for sure, what is law black law dictionary know square the Descendant etc.
I guess I am interested to keep watching to see if it is still holds if it is not in angular houses because the angular houses are so important anyway. I guess I am interested in to see, you know if it is going through the succedent or so forth, if it does still seem like it is hitting all four. CHRIS BRENNAN: And I can already answer that question so yes, but ………my conceptual even aside from practically just feeling like I have observed that in mesning subjective like experience of working with clients and different client charts over the past 10 years.
I think it is like conceptually the way I have tried to work out of this, I think that is the reason why I am seeing these other houses come into play when people hit their Saturn return because those are topics that are gonna come up and are gonna be relevant for the entire duration of the rest of their next 30 years Saturn cycle leo fifth house meaning at the most critical turning points those are the houses that Saturn is gonna be in when it hits those critical turning points is those four angular houses relative to the natal Saturn.
Okay, we are getting leo fifth house meaning the end of the show so maybe we should wrap up just talking about the last few potential interpretive principles.
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